ERISA and Medicare with Marcia Mantell

0:02 The following is paid programming. Welcome to Something More with Chris Boyd. Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner practitioner and senior vice president and financial advisor at Wealth Enhancement Group, one of the nation's largest registered investment advisors. We call it Something More because we'd like to talk not only about those important dollar and cents issues, but also the quality of life issues that make the money matters matter. Here he is, your fulfillment facilitator, your partner in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and across the country. Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd. Welcome to Something More with Chris Boyd. Thanks for being with us for another episode.

0:43 I'm here with Jeff Perry as my co-host again. We are both of the AMR team at Wealth Enhancement Group, and we are joined for another segment in By Marsha Mantel. And we had a great conversation. Part one, if you missed it. We were talking more about Medicare topics, a little ERISA, and we started to go down the social security topics and we got really... Sidetracked by Irma. Yeah, Irma took us off the track, off the rails. And so we wanted to spend a little more time with Marcia to talk about some social security topics. Social security is one of those subjects that everybody wants to talk about, wants to learn more about.

1:25 We... We haven't, when we've had the radio show in the past, callers would light up the lines with questions because everyone has their unique issues of what about this? Or what about that? Very common kind of things relate to people who work in the public sector, but might be eligible for social security or divorce. Yeah. Lots of these kinds of issues that will be, you know, Nuanced questions, you know, that it's not just as straightforward all the time. So let's talk about a variety of these kinds of things that you've given us a few thoughts for topics, Marcia, that have been coming up in your inquiries.

2:09 And I'm sure we'll chime in with a few that have come into some of our conversations with clients today. One that you mentioned as a starting point was the idea that what if someone wants to retire a little early and they don't quite have their 35 years? Because explain why that's relevant to 35 years. The basics of the calculation. Oh, sure. So Social Security is a calculated benefit, and it is based on your personal, every individual person's own earnings history. So back in 1979, when I worked at McDonald's that summer, well, that $125 is on my statement. It still counts. It does still count.

2:50 Now, you hope it doesn't count. Right. You'd rather not have only one hundred twenty five bucks on your as one of your thirty five years of highest earnings. So is that actually something you had? One hundred twenty five dollars is literally my very first W2 job. Yes. Yes. Babysitting and whatever. Babysitting didn't count. That's right. Yeah. The cutting the lawns for me. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So it's fun to see when you look at your full earnings statement and to see like, what was I doing in 1979? Oh, the summer before college. Right. So you need each person for the calculation to ideally work.

3:31 You need 35 years of earnings that are as high as they can be. And that's different from eligibility, though, right? That's correct. This is the calculation for your insurance benefit. But that's a great point, Chris, because to be eligible to even get a calculation, you need to have paid into Social Security for 40 quarters. They don't have to be consecutive quarters. They can be, you know, 10 quarters. Part-time in high school or whatever. That you're, you're earning, I call earning chips, right? You're earning your chips so that you now are eligible for social security, not only your old age and survivor benefits, but, But also disability benefits should you be one of the many people who ends up on SSDI.

4:18 So it is important to earn those little chits. And you do that by earning a certain amount of money. It's determined every year. I think this year it's, I don't know, is it $1,500 a quarter or $1,800? I'm sorry, I didn't look that number up. It's not a lot. It's not a big number. But can I ask you, does that same eligibility... impact one's eligibility for Medicare. Sorry to go back to Medicare again. See how easy it is? Yeah. But I remember a long time ago, I had a client who just was like, I'm not eligible for Medicare. I was like, what do you mean you're not eligible for Medicare? It's the 40 quarters. It is. I mean, FICA really is One coin, two sides.

5:06 So Social Security is on one side of that coin. You know, heads and tails is Medicare. It's Medicare Part A. And so when we talk about being eligible for Medicare, people do use these generic terms. All they're talking about is Medicare Part A, the premium free part of Medicare for hospitalization. And that's what your FICA is covering as you pay into the system. So yeah, your 40 quarters, once you or your spouse, not a partner, but a spouse, once you meet that 40 quarters, it qualifies you for Social Security, for Disability, for Medicare Part A, no premium. I'll put one asterisk on this. Yes.

5:47 There are professions, there are government workers who pay into Medicare, but not into Social Security. You are correct. Good point. Yes. Someone may not think that. So they may still be eligible by virtue of that Medicare premium, that tax. For Medicare. Yeah, that they've been paying out of their payroll. Even if they. Even though they're not participating in the Social Security system. That's right. Yeah, great point. Great point. And this is it. Everyone's situation, exactly what you said, Chris, is so different. Yeah, a lot of asterisks. Yes, a lot, because, you know, individual divorced spouses, you know, it's like, I'm not eligible for Medicare. Well, if you met all the rules as a qualifying divorced person, oh, yes, you are, if you're qualifying.

6:33 You know, so it's these things that don't just assume that because you don't look like the general rule that there isn't something that applies to you instead. Good points. In that 35-year calculation, back to a woman who may have been out of the labor market and have a bunch of zeros, does even working part-time before retiring, like knocking out a zero with $10,000 make much of a difference? Is it better or not? Yeah. It is always better to have something north of zero. Now, will it change your benefit from, say, $1,300 a month to $4,000 a month? No, it will not.

7:14 But as we move into old age, every dollar matters. And every guaranteed dollar is much more important. I get the question sometimes, usually from a husband who says, oh, my wife has 38 credits. And she hasn't worked for the last 25 years. She was home with the kids and running the house. Should she go back and get those last two credits? In that case, the answer is no. Because she will never have enough of a benefit in that few years that would exceed half of his full retirement age benefit.

7:54 As a spouse, she's entitled to half of his. That's her maximum benefit. And that works great for that family. That's how they decided to run their entire family. But you don't have to go back even if you're unless it makes her feel better. So here's the other thing, that emotional side. Yes. It's really hard to find out when you're, say, 62, that you have no worth. Right? It looks like, what do you mean I don't even get my own social security? Yeah. So if it's going to make her happier, have at it. She's going to get the same amount, you know, half of his, but she'll get her own payment first, and then a big spousal top up.

8:37 That makes sense. We have clients who we've had this come up a couple of times where this off your plans, some of the comments you thought we would want to talk about. But this is a real life issue where. We need to talk about the WEP. And we have clients who are very close to their eligibility for a public pension. Should I become eligible for that public pension? You know, two more years and I can at least have some eligibility. Am I better to like get that eligibility?

9:19 Become vested. To be vested for a public pension. Ten years in Massachusetts. It may not be, you know, full, you know, pension or something, but something, right? Yeah. Or am I better to not have that interfere with my Social Security calculation? You know, and should I just stay on the Social Security, you know, numbers and not have it interfere with those calculations? Because sometimes you're thinking about I have to go back to the government work for two years. Yeah. So I'm going to lose two years of Social Security earnings, right? Yeah, that's right. That's very common. Yeah. And there's no really good answer here. Right. It is. It's a pass.

10:00 You know, the look of that situation. So I had a slightly different version, which is someone who's getting the public pension. But he also worked like every summer doing consulting work. An engineer was working for the state, but he had a lot of FICA wages. But he didn't have his 30 years of substantial earnings yet. Which is a different number than the qualification number. Yes, it is. And substantial earnings, I don't mean like we get to decide, oh, you had plenty of earnings or substantial. No, no, no. Everything is clearly defined in the law. What does it mean? There's a number and it changes by year.

10:42 Every year you need a little bit more. So he was looking to avoid WEP, the Windfall Elimination Provision, entirely because by fully vested in his pension on this hand, but going back to the private sector for five years to get up to his 30 years of life. Actually, it's wonderful because if you can have your pension, your vested pension in the state, it's great. and a fully unreduced social security. So WEP doesn't- Can you explain? So if one has 30 years, as it is, of social security- 30 years of FICA.

11:24 FICA contribution earnings. Substantial earnings. Substantial, and that's a threshold. It is. It's not a huge number, but it's not $1,500. It may be, over the last few years, it's probably up around $30,000. It's about $30,000, yeah. And someone like that who's a consultant versus a camp counselor. So here's where we get. Now, what if you're a public school teacher? Just to finish that thought, if you have the 30 years, then there's no exposure to the windfall elimination provision. Correct. That is correct. And if you have at least 18, jump in if I'm going off memory. Between 18 and 30 is a scale. It's a sliding scale about what would be reduced.

12:04 Okay. That's right. Because it starts at... So what's happening is... So we'll do a little techie moment here. Your PIA is your primary insurance amount. That's your benefit amount. Okay. And it has a specific calculation based on those 35 years of highest earnings. There... You get your average index monthly earnings as the first part of the calculation, and then it's broken into three tiers. Most people get 90% of this first threshold dollar amount. These are all set by the law. They change every year. Then you get 35% of the second tranche and 15% of the third tranche. Well, with WEP, you start out, instead of getting 90% of that first band, you only get 40%.

12:49 But then you get to 45, 50, 55. So this is the scaling that gets you back up to the 90, which is what the rest of us get. After 30 years. So just to put a point on this, did I understand that to mean that if I'm subject to the windfall elimination provision, I'm never going to lose more than 60% of my Social Security benefits. I'd have 40% at least. Did I hear that? Not quite, because it's a calculation of three bands. It's like your tax brackets. So, you know, zero to $10,000, we pay zero in tax. And then the next tranche, you pay 12%.

13:30 Can I give up all of my Social Security benefits if I'm subject to the windfall elimination provision? That's kind of where I'm going with this. Oh, great question. And no, you cannot. The most you can have your Social Security benefit reduced is one half of your pension. OK, but there is a max. Is there not a max amount of the reduction, a dollar amount? There is. And it's on that chart. Right. Somewhere buried in SSA.gov. That's right. Again, not simple, but people who have the pension. So back to the original question, should this person go back and get vested? Probably. And then you throw in the health benefits that go along with that.

14:13 That go with the state pensions, which are very helpful. Right. So you're getting extra goods by being vested in a public sector job. So if you can get a job back there for two years, I'd say, you have to look at it. But on the surface, it looks like a good theory. Many times. And then you don't lose as much from your Social Security as you think. However, if your spouse is a dependent spouse... meaning she didn't have her 40 quarters or she is much lower earner, her benefit will be based on your, we call it the WEP PIA. So on a reduced PIA. And I will tell you, when people find this out, they're more mad about this than they are about Irma.

15:00 Absolutely, yes. I mean, they are really mad because there's no way on your statement to see any of this. There's one little paragraph that says you might be impacted by WEP if you have a public message. Yeah. That's a good point. That number on your Social Security estimate if you're a public employee is not yours. It is not yours. That's before the WEP. They don't calculate it on the statement. Even though they may think they know. Yeah, they don't. They don't. No. So that's another example. It's really important to do some planning in advance of your decisions because it could affect what you really have for cash flow.

15:40 Yep. And there is a tool, an improved tool, I'll say. It's better than the old tool on SSA.gov that you can plug in all the data. You have to manually plug in all those. Every year. Every year, which you get from your statement. So you can figure out what it would be. Yeah. I mean, but really it's a 15 minute task. I mean, and it's typing correctly from your full earning statement into the tool, but it is very good. You also need to know what your pension is. It shows like, I don't know, it gives some, so many years back in, Annually, and then it goes into bands of 10 years or something at a time, right? Yeah, you cannot use the new statement.

16:22 I'm so upset that they pulled off the full earnings history. It is so important, especially for the advisor community, to be able to help clients make decisions. You got to go find all those details. And it is available. So on FSA.gov, behind your login for each individual, right underneath... the four bars that show that you have your 40 credits there's a line that just says want to see your full earnings statement here it is why yes I do I wanted to see it on my statement but okay I'll take nine more steps to get it it takes more time to find it than it does to complete to actually do the data entry if you find it print it Yeah.

17:03 Yeah. Save it to a PDF and print it. Yeah. You may not find it again. Right. That's my experience anyway. Okay. All right. Sorry. Took us off track a little bit there. But, you know, I think this whole topic of windfall elimination provision, the, what's the other one? POP or something? GPO, government pension. That's what it is. Government pension upset. It's one of these things that people really need to have some awareness of, and it can be really challenging. Maybe just before we move on from this, how do those two differ, the government pension offset versus the windfall elimination provision?

17:44 They're similar but different. Right. In a really meaningful way. So WEP applies to you personally if you have the state pension or the uncovered pension. GPO applies to you as a spouse. So here's the other big place where people get tripped up. So now we'll take this couple. He has a private sector job, has $4,000 a month for social security. And he knows the rule is his spouse gets half of his, $2,000, because she doesn't have any social security. She's a Massachusetts public school teacher. Well, I'm always the one to bear the bad news.

18:26 I'm sure you guys are too. But yeah, she doesn't get $2,000. This is where GPO, the government pension offset applies. She's getting a government pension. So she didn't earn social security, but she's got $3,000 a month. His PIA is four thousand dollars a month. So he was thinking they were getting six grand in from Social Security plus her three thousand from the pension. Only she's not eligible for half of his. It starts out half of his. So two thousand dollars. And then it will be reduced. Her spousal benefit is reduced by two thirds of her pension.

19:09 So by $2,000. Which wiped it out. Which wiped it out. Zero. So there's an important distinction. Although the windfall elimination provision won't entirely eliminate one's Social Security benefit, the government pension officer can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, especially for the career public sector workers. I mean, the pensions are quite good for those folks. I mean, again, if you've got a career person today, they've been in for 35 years, they've got a nice pension coming to them. So it's something to plan for. And if she's in this example, the one who has the public pension with the spousal benefit, if she's the remaining spouse, the survivor, GPO also applies to the survivor benefit.

20:01 So also when you're planning, you're thinking, oh, okay, she's going to get screwed now, right? That's how people look at it. But at least she'll get his $4,000 if he dies first. No, she won't. She gets his $4,000 less two-thirds of her pension. And his pension may be reduced as well as a benefit. Yeah, so what happens in that scenario, she dies first in this scenario, but she included her spouse. And just for simplicity, we're going to make it 100%, so we don't have to do any complicated math here. So now he's receiving a public pension, right? He is. As the beneficiary survivor, he gets the 100% payout.

20:44 So in that scenario, he'd be subject to the windfall elimination provision, or would that be the GPO? Neither. So in his case, if he's just an IBM worker, right, always in the private sector, he has his social security for a random month, he gets his $4,000 a month, then he is the recipient. So it has no bearing on his social security whatsoever. None. It has to be a public thing. Yeah, well, I'm thinking if this is the teacher who died first and now he's getting her $2,000 in this scenario. Yep. He was getting $4,000 in Social Security. He's not affected by that $2,000 as an impact on his Social Security?

21:25 No, because he was not the pensioner. Okay. All right. Interesting. But I will say what's hard when the teachers are choosing their pension options, it's very tempting to do a single life annuity on these pensions. So pay over one life. People very frequently. And I mean, just you can't do it. I mean, almost 99.9% of the time, that's a bad decision. Because you can't, you know, as I mentioned before, Dan always dies in my scenarios. Well, really, who knows? Right. I could be the one dropping dead tomorrow. Right. So and I have heard this from women in particular whose husbands were the lifetime teacher.

22:09 It's like we thought he was going to live longer. It's like we hear this. Yeah. It's really it's tragic. Yeah. And yeah. I think it is one of these things where it seems to be more frequently with school teachers or public pension where they more frequently opt for that. Well, I have mine. He has his kind of mindset instead of, well, what happens when one of you isn't there? Your income just got cut in half potentially in that scenario or whatever. As you were saying earlier, Jeff, expenses don't necessarily get cut in half when when someone passes away, they may be diminished in, in some scale, but you know, it's one less meal to prepare.

22:56 There's maybe not two cars, you know, but there's, there's still the same house and insurance and taxes and energy costs, et cetera. You know, there's a lot of things that don't change. Off topic a little bit, but related. Sometimes everybody's different and they need to look at this individually, but sometimes life insurance can, Play into this. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. Permanent life insurance. As a tool to mitigate these risks. To allow them to take the full pension amount. But that's I think your comment is a really important one. it really has to be a permanent insurance solution and the calculation of how you come up with that. A lot of times people don't do it in a way that's a more nuanced way.

23:38 They just say, well, what can I afford? And I'll, I'll, you know, right. What's the amount. Yeah. And a lot of times it should be maybe more nuanced to say, well, in effect, what if I had to buy a pension, buy an annuity, an income, how much money immediately, right. You know, they died right away. Well, what would that require for a benefit amount? Now you don't expect that to be the way it happens. A million dollars with 30 years left to live is different than with five years left. Right. Absolutely. And even though that may not be the way one chooses to execute the use of those funds, you know, to buy an annuity or something. Sure. But that's a fair way to calculate how much do I need to replicate an income stream?

24:21 Right. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. And the other thing, you know, a little bit tongue in cheek, but I always tell Dan when he dies, I'm spending more. Yeah. So you might need a little more. Yeah. And not to buy fancy things or whatnot, but, you know, I'll go out, you know, with friends, you know, you need to build social life. I may, you know, go out to Minnesota to see my kids way more often. There are things that I don't want to have anything curtailed. Just because Dan's gone. So we joke about it. It's like, oh, my God, you're going to blow through all our money. It's like, you're not going to be here. Won't be your problem.

25:03 It's not always that. Does he give you a hard time about any of this stuff? Like when I am single, you know, that kind of thing? None of that? No, because Daniel can't even imagine. Oh, he'd be heartbroken and just he'd die anyway. Yeah. I don't think he would die, and I've already told our kids, you get dad if I die first. So, you know, that's the plan. He sure knows how to answer it right, I will say. That's pretty good. Good answer. All right, so let's go back to some of the other topics. What else should we talk about? Let's talk about divorce. Yeah, okay, sure. Yeah, divorce is always interesting because we have two parties who are- That's true too, yeah.

25:46 That's true, yeah. Yeah, let's say emotional. The divorce could have been 20 years ago, but there is still some baggage there. So the rules, the rules are straightforward. You had to have been married to your ex for 10 years or longer. That's the first gate. If you were married for nine years and change, you don't qualify. But none of these- Last minute marriages. Like, I'm going to get married until I get half a year. Well, I'm going to come back to that. Okay. Okay. This is divorce, not marriage. Divorce. Right. For divorce. So it's 10 years or longer. You each are at least age 62. You have not remarried.

26:27 We don't care what your ex has done. Right there. That's always a big... But he remarried. We don't care what he did. So you have not remarried. And... What's number four? And it has to yield a larger amount than your own. Sure. Right. And the divorce had to have been two years or longer. So what happens here is usually the scenario is the ex-wife has no idea that she's even eligible for Social Security other than whatever she's had. Now, she's getting $3,000 a month. Yay, she had a great career. She's doing wonderfully. But if she were the at-home mom, she doesn't know she can qualify as an ex-spouse for an ex-spousal top up.

27:18 Yeah. So what happens is she'll get her own benefit. We'll say it's a thousand dollars a month. But if he's getting $4,000 a month because he was the higher earner, she's entitled to his ex-spousal top up as if she were still married to the same person. So she'll get an extra $1,000 a month. And let me tell you, that is a huge win, right? Because she thought she only had $1,000 as her foundation. Now she has $2,000. Now, Marcia, talk about the timing. when this is relevant? What if she retires sooner and wants to have her Social Security benefits start sooner? What if he retires later?

27:58 So he's not collecting something. Yeah, and is not collecting it until later. How does that play into some of these considerations? And You made the point in other conversations that the ex-spouse doesn't need to have any involvement to know anything about. It's not coming off their chest. It's not something that they're involved in in any way. Do they even get notified? No, they don't. This is strictly private between each individual and the Social Security Administration. You're right. I think that's important for people to know. Sometimes it's important to people. Although they might send an email. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, these divorces can be very, very nasty.

28:42 And then all of a sudden, 10 years later, your ex-husband is showing up, knocking on the door going, hey, I want half your Social Security. That never happens. This is strictly private. But what's interesting, Chris, as far as timing goes. Yeah, that can have some consequence. Again, it makes no difference what your ex is doing. Absolutely none. The only rule is the divorce had to be two years ago or longer. Okay. So you do have this one two-year window you have to wait. Whether they've started receiving their benefits, whether they waited until they were 70 to get that extra, it has no bearing on the ex-spouse.

29:25 Based on their full retirement benefit? Nope. Use that date, what they would be getting if they were collecting? Nope, just PIA. And because all these benefits are calculated benefits. So let's just say Dan and I are divorced and I'm the lower earner. In order for me to get half of his PIA, I have to be a much lower earner. And the other rules, 10 years, divorce was five years ago. So if he started his at 62 with a 30% discount or whatever it is. That's exactly it. Don't care. And then you're going to start at a full retirement age.

30:07 Because that's the key. In order for me to get half of his PIA, I have to be at my full retirement age. So let's say I did wait that long. And again, we're going to use simple numbers. His benefit was $4,000, his PIA. So I'm entitled to $2,000, assuming I've met all the other rules. Now, that's Dan's PIA. If he claimed early... And he's only getting $3,000 a month. First of all, I will never know. I don't care. Social Security doesn't care. So it's still based on that $4,000 at full retirement calculation. Everything is about that PIA, that primary insurance amount. And that's, again, that calculated benefit at your own full retirement age.

30:53 Now, where does it come out really to play? Two pieces. One, when Dan dies in this scenario, I, as the ex-spouse, qualifying ex-spouse, still get to step into his shoes. So if he claimed early and is only getting $3,000 a month, that's what I will get as a widow of an ex-spouse. Now, if Dan, unthinkable, I'm sure, but if he remarried, would that still be applicable or would that change? For me, it's still applicable. All the possibilities, right? No, but this is what's important because widows and widowers don't know to call Social Security after they learn of the death of their ex to just say, look, my ex died.

31:41 I'm wondering, would I get a bump up? Do I get a different amount as a surviving ex-spouse? And if the answer is yes, you have earned that or you are entitled to that money. So in the case of the new spouse, is it? So it's a double, double dip there a little bit. Yes, it is. But again, it's been running out of money. Yeah. Yeah. Reform ideas. Yeah. Right. So you have the X and multiple X's, you know, if Dan had multiple X's all qualifying, if he married and remarried three times, then all three of those women would, are entitled to ex-spousal benefits.

32:27 And both half of his while everyone's alive, and then they step into his shoes when- They shouldn't be penalized. I mean, that's- Yeah, that's, yeah, exactly. That's not their, yeah. Right. Good point. And again, the actuaries have come up with all these calculations. So divorce was not unknown in the 30s. So this is built into the overall calculations to make sure that the program is sustainable and that we're not leaving widows or women in particular out on the street with no foundation. Yep. What I find interesting today, the law is that you needed to be married 10 years or longer.

33:12 Originally, to be a qualifying ex-spouse, you had to be married 20 years. Wow. So that can be very difficult if you are in a difficult marriage. So I'm glad to see that that changed. I want to say in the 70s. So there's no retroactivity or anything where someone has to worry about that, that they fall into that category or something. It's like rules change for everybody. Yes, correct. And now men. So now let's flip the switch situation. Right. And let's say I'm the higher earner and Dan and I are divorced.

33:52 Dan is entitled to half of my PIA. Also gender neutral for same sex married couples. They get a divorce. Same thing. If you meet those rules, those I come the gating rules, mainly 10 years or longer that you were married, you are entitled. You built an economic household together, however you did it. Right. Yeah, good points. Yeah, very good points. So I had mentioned the deathbed marriage, right? Oh, yes, yes. Good point. So the deathbed marriage is interesting. So you have to be married for a year to be eligible for survivor benefits.

34:34 Okay. So if you had this marriage and then he died three weeks later, that wasn't long enough to establish, you know... the marriage however if he dies in a military action or an unknowable accident then she would be entitled at that point even with a short marriage an unknown car accident would be an example of an unknowable accident right so they're just trying to avoid the death playing games with it yes exactly exactly Okay. We see oftentimes people later in life decide, should we remarry?

35:19 Should we not? That kind of mindset. There's all the long-term care considerations of intermingling their finances or not. That was my mom. She said, we're not going to get married. We don't want to screw this up. But this may be one of those variables. That's what she was talking about, finances. Yeah, and then Social Security could be one of those variables that factors into that, you know, the financial wherewithal of the survivor. Is there a scenario that an older couple get married and it's detrimental to their Social Security? No, I'm just saying whether to marry.

36:01 Sometimes they refrain from that because of a financial consideration. This could be another financial consideration that could be a virtue to have that survivor benefit. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's where I was going with that. Yeah, and the only age marker to think about is age 60. So if you're already a widow... and you remarry before age 60, you cannot continue to receive survivor benefits because now you're married to a living person. Yes. So that's one. But for the older couples, there's the romance side of life and there's the financial side of life.

36:44 Right. And- they're equally important. And the financial side is not romantic, right? But it's super important to look at. And especially if you have children and grandchildren and, you know, then you need a prenup. And the estate planning and all the documents. Yes. And if you're in a common law state, you know, once you get married, common law. Sorry, is that the right phrase I'm looking for? The 50-50 states. Community property. Thank you. Community property state. You know, there are lots of more complications on the one hand, and then it's simpler on the other. But yeah, the second marriages can be very complicated and need to be really thought through financially as well as family and implications.

37:32 Yeah. Yeah. We mentioned on a prior episode about your publications and your books and so forth, but I wanted to just take a moment to say, how should people be following all the great insights that you share routinely, Marcia? What's the best way for people to keep track of all that you're putting out? Well, thank you for asking. The best place is my blog, and it's called boomerretirementbriefs.com. So I have lots of fun articles about what boomers are doing for retirement, as well as some technical stuff. Or my business website, which is mantellretirementconsulting.com.

38:14 And that's where I have a media library of all the articles I've written or all the media interviews that have taken place and all the podcasts like this one. Excellent. Well, I'm glad we'll be there. So definitely check that out. Get all kinds of great information from Marcia. She's just a wealth of good information, as you can tell from our conversations that we've had. Marcia, thank you for making the time to be with us. More time than we planned. And so much to learn, so much to talk about. And anything else you want to share in terms of contact or anything else? No, just one bit of advice, which is please, please, please set up your My Social Security online account.

39:00 Get your statement and your earnings history. Good counsel. Jeff, thank you. Marcia, thank you. Thank you, Marcia. Thank all of you all for being with us. Sorry, what was that? It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Our pleasure. Thank you all for being with us. Until next time, keep striving for something more. Thank you for listening to Something More with Chris Boyd. Call us for help, whether it's for financial planning or portfolio management, insurance concerns, or those quality of life issues that make the money matters matter. Whatever's on your mind, visit us at somethingmorewithchrisboyd.com or call us toll free at 866-771-8901. Or send us your questions to amr-info at wealthenhancement.com.

39:49 You're listening to Something More with Chris Boyd Financial Talk Show. Wealth Enhancement Advisory Services and J. Christopher Boyd provide investment advice on an individual basis to clients only. Proper advice depends on a complete analysis of all facts and circumstances. The information given on this program is general financial comments and cannot be relied upon as pertaining to your specific situation. Wealth Enhancement Group cannot guarantee that using the information from this show will generate profits or ensure freedom from loss. Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or conduct their own due diligence before making any financial decisions.