Beyond the Numbers: Finding Purpose in Retirement with Fritz Gilbert

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Welcome to something more with Chris Boyd.

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Chris Boyd is a certified financial planner, practitioner

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and senior vice president and financial advisor at

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Wealth Enhancement Group, one of the nation's largest

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registered investment advisors.

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We call it something more because we'd like

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to talk not only about those important dollar

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and cents issues, but also the quality of

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life issues that make the money matters matter.

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Here he is, your fulfillment facilitator, your partner

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in prosperity, advising clients on Cape Cod and

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across the country.

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Here's your host, Jay Christopher Boyd.

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Welcome.

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I'm Chris Boyd.

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I'm here with Jeff Perry.

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We are both of the AMR team at

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Wealth Enhancement and glad to have you with

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us.

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We have a special guest today, Fritz Gilbert.

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He is the author of the blog website,

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The Retirement Manifesto, as well as the book,

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The Keys to Financial Retirement.

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We're going to get a lot from our

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conversation today.

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And Fritz, it's great to have you here.

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Thanks for being with us.

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Hey, thanks for the invitation, Chris.

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I look forward to talking with you and

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Jeff.

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Tell us to start with, you have an

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interesting backstory that led you to this passion

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that you have today.

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This wasn't what you've always done, is it?

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No, I was a corporate guy for 33

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years, worked in the global aluminum business and

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got out at 55.

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So a little bit of an early retiree

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and actually started the blog three years before

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I retired as kind of a curiosity experiment

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just to say, hey, let's see how this

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goes.

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And it turned out that I really enjoy

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writing and it's kind of gotten some traction

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and turned into a thing.

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And it's kind of become one of my

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purposes in retirement.

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So yeah, I enjoy it.

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Well, that's what we're going to talk about

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a little bit.

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Those keys to successful retirement, I'm sure.

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How much of starting the blog was your

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own process of, what am I going to

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do?

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Yeah, it's interesting, Jeff, because if you look

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through the blog, when I started writing it,

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you can kind of tell where my head

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was at.

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And one of the lines in my earliest,

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earliest post, I think it might have been

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my first one, this is the story of

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my present before it becomes my past.

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So it's kind of a journaling exercise.

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But really what it is, is here are

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the things that I'm thinking about as I

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prepare for and then transition into and now

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live in retirement.

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Here are the things I'm thinking about at

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the various stages.

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And here's the way I'm going about it.

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Hey, I don't care if you use these

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tactics or not.

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It's just the things that I'm thinking about

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and the ways I'm going about it.

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And I've had a lot of readers that

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are saying, man, that's really helpful because it

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kind of gives me a framework or the

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way to think about things, make sure I'm

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not missing some blind spots.

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So it started very much focused on the

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financials.

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Am I able to retire?

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A lot of stuff on the financial stuff.

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And then as I moved into retirement, you

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can see my thinking shifting more away from

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the financials as everybody does.

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And into the kind of what's the purpose

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of life type thing, which is what I

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write more about now.

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So it's a good fit with something more.

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It fits well.

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The something more is really, we certainly can

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talk about the how to earn something more

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part of things, but it's really the idea

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that there's more to it.

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There's more to life.

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It's not just about the money.

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I felt like you were writing to me

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when I read that when you were talking

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about tracking your net worth is not a

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goal.

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Well, it was my goal for like 25

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years.

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Yeah.

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And I've had so many friends.

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I was kind of in the fire community.

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I was out at 55, so kind of

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late fire, but early retirees.

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And so many of them have said, my

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whole goal has been to get to X

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millions of dollars, whatever their number was.

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But getting to the number, it doesn't really

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bring fulfillment.

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It's a tool, right?

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It's a tool to allow you to go

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out and do the things that are going

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to bring you real fulfillment.

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Having a number as an objective for fulfillment

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is sorely lacking once you achieve it.

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It's just, okay, it's another day you wake

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up.

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What are you going to do now?

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Exactly the same experience.

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We hit the number and I was like,

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okay, should we just raise the number?

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Is that our new goal?

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Yeah, exactly.

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That's a great point.

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How do you know when you're ready?

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Okay.

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Now what?

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Yeah.

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And this kind of led to my book,

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The Keys to a Successful Retirement.

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What I discovered in a lot of my

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research, the non-financial aspects of your retirement

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before you get there and exactly those questions,

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Jeff, that you were just raising, what are

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you going to do now?

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And the way I like to think about

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it you think about losing the paycheck when

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you retire, but you don't necessarily think about

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losing your sense of identity, the relationships at

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work, your sense of purpose, all those other

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non-financial benefits.

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Thinking about how you're going to replace each

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one of those, as well as the paycheck

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before you retire can be really helpful in

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making for a smooth transition.

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The majority of retirees struggle with the transition

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for exactly those reasons that you mentioned.

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And the more you can think about those

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things before you retire, the smoother the transition.

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That's been proven by research.

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So my writing basically provided me that avenue

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of exploring those other areas and it helped

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tremendously.

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And my transition was as smooth as could

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be.

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I'm very pleased with how my transition's gone.

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Yeah.

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You wrote in the last column, which maybe

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we'll have time to review some of it,

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but you wrote that retirement itself increases the

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probability of depression by up to 40%.

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Yeah.

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It's a big number and people don't necessarily

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think about that.

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They think, oh, it's going to be a

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vacation.

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It's going to be just, I don't have

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to get up to the alarm clock.

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And everybody has a honeymoon phase.

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There's really a viral TED talk from a

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guy, Moiley Rimes, that talks about the four

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stages of retirement.

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It's my most read post because I wrote

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an article about that video.

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And then I talked about each of the

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phases and my experience with them.

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And everybody goes through the honeymoon phase, but

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what people don't recognize is that phase two,

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that kind of disorientation can lead to depression,

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that phase two is 85% of retirees

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get into that.

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And it's not a good place to be.

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And it takes some time, typically a couple

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of years to kind of work through it.

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It's all self-driven.

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You've got to find your way out of

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it.

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You don't have a boss anymore.

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And it's all through kind of trial and

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experimentation, which is phase three, when you start

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finally kind of listening to your curiosity and

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just exploring different things.

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And with time, like my blog, a few

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things start to click and they start hitting

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for you and you're enjoying them and then

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you're on your way.

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And then phase four is kind of when

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you found that fulfillment and purpose phase, which

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only 65% of retirees actually make it

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to phase four, but it's a wonderful place

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to be.

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And that's where I'm at now.

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And I'm loving life.

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How does one begin this process?

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How to be thinking about this?

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Yeah.

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I think the biggest thing I would say,

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Chris, is make a list of the things

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that you maybe don't recognize that you're getting

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from work.

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Assume you've got a year or two left

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to work.

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You're going to do the financials.

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You've got to do the financials.

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So let's just leave that as obvious.

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They're necessary, but not sufficient.

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And then kind of go beyond it and

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say, okay, what about my sense of identity?

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My sense of identity is going to be

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gone.

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Nobody's going to care that I was an

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aluminum guy, right?

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So what do I want to be?

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That's a good point.

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I mean, it's hard to kind of envision

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that thought process.

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I don't know if this is always the

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case for women as much as men, and

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generalizing, but men definitely tie a lot of

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their identity to their work experience.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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And I think the challenging part of all

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this is, especially those of us who have

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kind of been more, I guess, left-brained

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or right-brained, I get them mixed up,

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but the more analytical side, which tends to

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serve you well in your career, is not

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really the way you find your way out

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of these other elements.

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It's more of a creative, artistic exploration, curiosity,

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pursuit.

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So it's a muscle that you really haven't

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exercised probably since you were in kindergarten or

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whatever, and you were just free to go

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out and play and do what interested you.

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And so a part of it is just

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learning how to get that muscle back engaged

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and trying...

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There's a lot of books about this.

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I think about Doc G, he wrote his

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book about the purpose code, and his whole

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thing is just find something that kind of

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interests you and intrigues you.

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He's talking about baseball cards, collecting baseball cards,

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and just start pursuing these things that kind

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of interest you.

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And that's typically how most people find out.

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Charity work, my wife started a great charity

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called Freedom for Fido, which I'm very active

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in, and finding a way to give back

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to a community is a really good place

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to look as well, because as you have

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more free time and you've kind of met

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your material needs, it's a really fulfilling area

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to explore helping other people that haven't yet

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fulfilled their material needs, and you've got time

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and freedom to do it.

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So that's a really good way to get

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00:08:48,770 --> 00:08:51,830
some fulfillment as well as just volunteer with

275
00:08:51,830 --> 00:08:53,370
a couple of charities in your area.

276
00:08:53,930 --> 00:08:55,610
And maybe you don't like the first one,

277
00:08:55,670 --> 00:08:57,290
fine, go to the second and third, fourth,

278
00:08:57,730 --> 00:08:59,190
and eventually you'll kind of find a group

279
00:08:59,190 --> 00:08:59,610
of people.

280
00:08:59,730 --> 00:09:00,310
So what do you get?

281
00:09:00,370 --> 00:09:01,670
You get your relationships, right?

282
00:09:01,670 --> 00:09:03,510
You start getting this network of people that

283
00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:04,910
are working towards a common goal.

284
00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:07,490
You get that feeling of purpose because you're

285
00:09:07,490 --> 00:09:09,470
giving back to something and you get a

286
00:09:09,470 --> 00:09:11,230
sense of identity because you're, oh, you're that

287
00:09:11,230 --> 00:09:12,890
guy that works at Freedom for Fido or

288
00:09:12,890 --> 00:09:14,090
writes that blog, whatever.

289
00:09:14,670 --> 00:09:16,930
Finding a way where you're benefiting others is

290
00:09:16,930 --> 00:09:17,590
a really...

291
00:09:17,590 --> 00:09:20,110
That's fertile ground to plow.

292
00:09:20,230 --> 00:09:22,570
And sometimes that's hard for people to find.

293
00:09:22,810 --> 00:09:25,550
So the best thing to do is just

294
00:09:25,550 --> 00:09:26,590
try and do something.

295
00:09:26,830 --> 00:09:27,870
Yeah, exactly.

296
00:09:28,110 --> 00:09:29,710
If that works, and if that doesn't work,

297
00:09:29,790 --> 00:09:30,630
try something different.

298
00:09:31,050 --> 00:09:31,170
Yeah.

299
00:09:31,170 --> 00:09:32,550
The worst thing you can do is just

300
00:09:32,550 --> 00:09:35,010
sit in your recliner and watch YouTube videos

301
00:09:35,010 --> 00:09:35,410
or whatever.

302
00:09:35,530 --> 00:09:37,370
You've got to get out there and try

303
00:09:37,370 --> 00:09:37,670
stuff.

304
00:09:37,770 --> 00:09:38,050
Absolutely.

305
00:09:38,490 --> 00:09:39,270
There is something worse.

306
00:09:39,370 --> 00:09:40,450
You could watch the news.

307
00:09:43,830 --> 00:09:47,010
In your last article that's on your website,

308
00:09:47,270 --> 00:09:48,210
a lot of great content.

309
00:09:48,350 --> 00:09:49,710
People should check it out and subscribe.

310
00:09:50,530 --> 00:09:53,990
We talk about purpose a lot and we

311
00:09:53,990 --> 00:09:56,470
kind of touched about that, but go on

312
00:09:56,470 --> 00:09:56,990
to structure.

313
00:09:57,150 --> 00:09:59,990
Because I think when thinking about retirement, a

314
00:09:59,990 --> 00:10:01,690
lot of people think the opposite of structure.

315
00:10:01,830 --> 00:10:03,010
I don't have a schedule.

316
00:10:03,370 --> 00:10:04,470
I don't have to be anywhere.

317
00:10:04,850 --> 00:10:06,510
I don't want to have to have any

318
00:10:06,510 --> 00:10:06,930
commitments.

319
00:10:07,350 --> 00:10:09,990
A lot of people approach this newfound freedom,

320
00:10:10,250 --> 00:10:12,890
but that may not be the best case,

321
00:10:12,910 --> 00:10:13,290
you think?

322
00:10:13,290 --> 00:10:14,010
Absolutely.

323
00:10:14,310 --> 00:10:16,310
I think one of the surprises a lot

324
00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:19,290
of people face is, oh, that unstructured life

325
00:10:19,290 --> 00:10:20,130
is going to be great.

326
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:21,770
But the reality of it is, when you've

327
00:10:21,770 --> 00:10:23,710
gone from a 30 to 40 year career,

328
00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:25,690
even back to your school days, right?

329
00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:26,470
School is structured.

330
00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:28,750
So your whole life since you were five

331
00:10:28,750 --> 00:10:30,890
or six years old has been structured, very

332
00:10:30,890 --> 00:10:31,310
structured.

333
00:10:31,630 --> 00:10:32,930
The time you get up, you've got to

334
00:10:32,930 --> 00:10:33,690
be a certain place.

335
00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:34,830
You've got certain things you've got to get

336
00:10:34,830 --> 00:10:35,190
done.

337
00:10:35,890 --> 00:10:38,970
You've got a certain time you get excused.

338
00:10:39,370 --> 00:10:41,350
You've got structure to your entire day for

339
00:10:41,350 --> 00:10:44,410
40 years, and suddenly you have no structure.

340
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:47,550
And that's a really disorienting phase.

341
00:10:47,690 --> 00:10:49,230
That's part of why people get into this

342
00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:50,950
phase two of disorientation.

343
00:10:51,070 --> 00:10:54,510
And it's not always intuitive why you feel

344
00:10:54,510 --> 00:10:57,050
disoriented, but a big piece of it can

345
00:10:57,050 --> 00:10:57,690
be structure.

346
00:10:58,050 --> 00:10:59,390
The fact that you went from a fully

347
00:10:59,390 --> 00:11:01,810
structured day to a fully unstructured day.

348
00:11:02,330 --> 00:11:03,930
So what I encourage people to do, and

349
00:11:03,930 --> 00:11:06,250
this is what I did, is I said,

350
00:11:06,330 --> 00:11:07,550
okay, I'm going to add some structure to

351
00:11:07,550 --> 00:11:07,890
my day.

352
00:11:07,970 --> 00:11:11,130
So I joined a local gym and I

353
00:11:11,130 --> 00:11:13,010
took classes three days a week.

354
00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:15,050
So Monday, Wednesday, Friday, seven o'clock, I

355
00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:15,850
was at the gym, right?

356
00:11:15,870 --> 00:11:17,210
I was working out for a couple days.

357
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:21,210
And I found that adding some structure really

358
00:11:21,210 --> 00:11:21,590
helps.

359
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:22,810
Now you don't have to fill your day

360
00:11:22,810 --> 00:11:23,310
with structure.

361
00:11:23,630 --> 00:11:26,430
What I've tended to evolve into is kind

362
00:11:26,430 --> 00:11:27,650
of a more structured morning.

363
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:29,010
That's kind of my writing time.

364
00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:30,810
I'll do podcast interviews, et cetera.

365
00:11:30,890 --> 00:11:32,070
I'll kind of do blog stuff.

366
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:33,830
And then in the afternoon, I kind of

367
00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:35,190
keep it open and it's kind of a

368
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:37,050
more serendipitous part of my day, which I

369
00:11:37,050 --> 00:11:37,410
enjoy.

370
00:11:37,950 --> 00:11:40,310
But having some structure kind of keeps you

371
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:40,650
grounded.

372
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:41,710
You know what day of the week it

373
00:11:41,710 --> 00:11:42,030
is.

374
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:43,630
It helps.

375
00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:47,850
So unstructured sounds great, but that's one of

376
00:11:47,850 --> 00:11:49,030
those things that you lose more.

377
00:11:49,250 --> 00:11:51,170
Like the relationships, like the sense of purpose,

378
00:11:51,370 --> 00:11:55,170
like the activities and objectives and things you're

379
00:11:55,170 --> 00:11:57,610
working towards, structure is one of those things.

380
00:11:58,150 --> 00:12:00,350
And it's good to think about before you

381
00:12:00,350 --> 00:12:02,770
retire, how much structure do I want in

382
00:12:02,770 --> 00:12:03,070
my life?

383
00:12:03,130 --> 00:12:04,290
Maybe you think you want none.

384
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:05,390
That's fine.

385
00:12:05,450 --> 00:12:06,710
You can go into it with that mindset,

386
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:09,050
but at least have some ideas of how

387
00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:10,950
could you add structure back to your day?

388
00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:12,270
I went to the gym, right?

389
00:12:12,290 --> 00:12:12,910
That's an option.

390
00:12:13,790 --> 00:12:15,450
I'm going to walk a couple of days

391
00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:16,730
a week with my best friend, John.

392
00:12:16,770 --> 00:12:17,750
I'm going to hook up with him and

393
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:18,850
we're going to start walking together.

394
00:12:19,090 --> 00:12:20,650
I'm going to play pickleball on Tuesdays, whatever.

395
00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:22,450
There's a lot of ways you can add

396
00:12:22,450 --> 00:12:25,270
structure, unlimited ways you can add structure.

397
00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:26,350
So think about that.

398
00:12:26,450 --> 00:12:27,750
Think about ways that you could add it

399
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:28,930
and experiment with that.

400
00:12:28,990 --> 00:12:29,990
That's one of the levers that you have

401
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:30,510
to play with.

402
00:12:31,930 --> 00:12:34,230
You made reference a couple of times to

403
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:35,970
going out and play and a lot of

404
00:12:35,970 --> 00:12:37,330
these, you're going to the gym.

405
00:12:38,930 --> 00:12:42,750
Talk about that notion of the importance of

406
00:12:43,250 --> 00:12:48,130
the physical exercise and just maintenance, if you

407
00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:48,350
will.

408
00:12:49,530 --> 00:12:52,970
In my case and in many other retirees,

409
00:12:53,050 --> 00:12:55,230
I just read a really good article by

410
00:12:55,230 --> 00:12:56,150
Dr. Grumman.

411
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:58,610
He talked about, he went to a financial

412
00:12:58,610 --> 00:13:01,390
retreat and he said, you know, people weren't

413
00:13:01,390 --> 00:13:02,290
even talking about money.

414
00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:03,610
Everybody's talking about fitness.

415
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:04,330
Like, what are you doing?

416
00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:05,410
And it's interesting.

417
00:13:05,890 --> 00:13:07,750
I think one of the ways you can

418
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:09,990
replace that striving that you've had to build

419
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:11,670
a certain net worth number and all those

420
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:14,190
things, well, you can redirect that energy to

421
00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:15,790
say, okay, how can I improve myself?

422
00:13:16,390 --> 00:13:19,670
And what can I do to, I read,

423
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:21,350
what was it, Outlive?

424
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:22,910
I got it on my thing over there,

425
00:13:23,150 --> 00:13:23,430
a book.

426
00:13:23,450 --> 00:13:24,210
I read a lot of books.

427
00:13:24,670 --> 00:13:27,590
How can you expand your health span so

428
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:29,530
that you'll get as many years of healthy

429
00:13:29,530 --> 00:13:30,610
activity as you can?

430
00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:33,550
Because if you don't focus on it, you

431
00:13:33,550 --> 00:13:36,110
will naturally atrophy, you know, and younger next

432
00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:37,090
year is a great case.

433
00:13:37,310 --> 00:13:39,890
This doctor writes with one of his clients

434
00:13:39,890 --> 00:13:42,130
about the reality that you can do stuff

435
00:13:42,130 --> 00:13:43,530
in your seventies that you did in your

436
00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:44,470
thirties and forties.

437
00:13:44,850 --> 00:13:48,010
If you stay continually focused on doing, you

438
00:13:48,010 --> 00:13:49,010
don't have to be crazy.

439
00:13:49,390 --> 00:13:50,690
You can just go out and he says

440
00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:53,030
a minimum is like a good 45 minute

441
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:55,070
walk, you know, maybe six days a week,

442
00:13:55,170 --> 00:13:56,230
something equivalent to that.

443
00:13:56,650 --> 00:13:58,110
So if you can do something where you're

444
00:13:58,110 --> 00:13:59,870
just moving, you're using your body.

445
00:14:00,670 --> 00:14:02,570
And, and number one, it makes you feel

446
00:14:02,570 --> 00:14:02,870
good.

447
00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:04,670
Number two, it adds some structure to your

448
00:14:04,670 --> 00:14:05,050
day.

449
00:14:05,650 --> 00:14:07,230
Number three, you feel a sense of accomplishment.

450
00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:09,750
And number four, you, you increase your odds

451
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:11,270
of having more years that you can do

452
00:14:11,270 --> 00:14:12,250
the things that you want to do.

453
00:14:12,330 --> 00:14:13,550
You can pick up your grandkids.

454
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:16,870
Being intentional about that is something you can

455
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:18,570
do with the free time and retirement that

456
00:14:18,570 --> 00:14:20,350
brings, you know, tremendous benefits.

457
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:22,130
One of the things that I would ask

458
00:14:22,130 --> 00:14:24,150
you to think about or to comment about

459
00:14:24,150 --> 00:14:26,050
is the idea that, you know, as we

460
00:14:26,050 --> 00:14:29,470
age, we tend to have more chronic health

461
00:14:29,470 --> 00:14:30,050
challenges.

462
00:14:30,290 --> 00:14:32,070
We spend more time going to doctors.

463
00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:35,550
And, uh, how does that, and I think

464
00:14:35,550 --> 00:14:38,890
sometimes that can affect your passion for life,

465
00:14:38,970 --> 00:14:39,390
right?

466
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:42,250
You know, they can undermine your sense of

467
00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:43,710
enthusiasm and so forth.

468
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:46,510
And so I imagine, you know, the things

469
00:14:46,510 --> 00:14:49,270
you're talking about, investing in yourself can help

470
00:14:49,270 --> 00:14:54,270
to have maybe less of those chronic issues

471
00:14:54,270 --> 00:14:58,630
perhaps, and more intellectual stimulation or spiritual or

472
00:14:58,630 --> 00:15:01,550
whatever the areas one may choose to select.

473
00:15:01,850 --> 00:15:04,250
But, um, but there are some things beyond

474
00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:05,510
our control, I imagine.

475
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:10,110
Uh, and that can, uh, undermine some of

476
00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:11,390
this ultimately, correct?

477
00:15:11,850 --> 00:15:13,810
Yeah, it can Chris, but the way I

478
00:15:13,810 --> 00:15:15,850
look at it is, you know, there's only

479
00:15:15,850 --> 00:15:17,190
so many things within our control.

480
00:15:17,650 --> 00:15:19,430
So I control the things I can.

481
00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:21,650
And I've got a friend of mine, I'm

482
00:15:21,650 --> 00:15:22,670
actually going to go have lunch with him

483
00:15:22,670 --> 00:15:22,930
today.

484
00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:25,030
And he's, he's getting to the point where

485
00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:26,210
his body's starting to break down.

486
00:15:26,270 --> 00:15:27,970
He's, he's in his late seventies, early eighties

487
00:15:27,970 --> 00:15:28,650
at 78.

488
00:15:29,350 --> 00:15:31,330
And he's starting to struggle with the fact,

489
00:15:31,410 --> 00:15:32,890
you know, he said, man, he said, I'm

490
00:15:32,890 --> 00:15:34,390
just, I can't do stuff I used to

491
00:15:34,390 --> 00:15:34,550
do.

492
00:15:34,630 --> 00:15:35,730
And he, and he's kind of getting depressed

493
00:15:35,730 --> 00:15:36,190
about it.

494
00:15:36,190 --> 00:15:38,110
You know, it's, it's an, it's a net,

495
00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:40,030
we will all get there at some point,

496
00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:40,550
right?

497
00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:43,070
So the question is, what can we do

498
00:15:43,070 --> 00:15:46,930
now that hopefully delays that process as much

499
00:15:46,930 --> 00:15:49,370
as we can delay it, which you can

500
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:52,190
delay it a lot, but the reality, yeah,

501
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:53,590
you're, you're not going to delay it forever.

502
00:15:53,910 --> 00:15:56,050
So the other part is getting your mindset

503
00:15:56,050 --> 00:15:57,990
around the reality that we're all going to

504
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:58,950
die someday, right?

505
00:15:59,010 --> 00:16:00,170
We're all, none of us are going to

506
00:16:00,170 --> 00:16:03,090
get out of here alive and, and finding

507
00:16:03,090 --> 00:16:07,110
a way that you accept that reality of

508
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:10,570
mortality, which to me gives more of the

509
00:16:10,570 --> 00:16:13,030
urgency to enjoying and living each day to

510
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:13,310
the fullest.

511
00:16:14,510 --> 00:16:14,870
Absolutely.

512
00:16:15,150 --> 00:16:16,110
Die with zero, right?

513
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:17,470
The die with zero concept.

514
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:19,270
It's not about it's, he talks about the

515
00:16:19,270 --> 00:16:21,290
financial, but I read, I went into this

516
00:16:21,290 --> 00:16:23,030
book thinking this is, this is, you know,

517
00:16:23,050 --> 00:16:23,970
this is ludicrous.

518
00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:25,110
Nobody knows when they're going to die.

519
00:16:25,210 --> 00:16:26,030
How do you, how can you drain your

520
00:16:26,030 --> 00:16:26,230
bank?

521
00:16:26,330 --> 00:16:27,430
That's not the point at all.

522
00:16:27,470 --> 00:16:30,450
The point is think about your life aspirations

523
00:16:30,450 --> 00:16:32,770
and the things you want to do and

524
00:16:32,770 --> 00:16:33,910
sequence them, right?

525
00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:35,790
If you want to climb Mount Everest, man,

526
00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:37,130
you better do it before you're, you know,

527
00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:38,670
50 or whatever the age is that you

528
00:16:38,670 --> 00:16:39,850
can tap, you know, tap out.

529
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:42,450
And, and if you want to go, we

530
00:16:42,450 --> 00:16:44,690
went to the Arctic this past the summer,

531
00:16:44,770 --> 00:16:45,850
my wife and I, and part of the

532
00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:47,350
reason we went, you know, we're 62.

533
00:16:47,530 --> 00:16:48,770
We're like, Hey, we're in great health.

534
00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:50,090
You know, we can do this.

535
00:16:50,130 --> 00:16:51,610
We can go anywhere we want to go.

536
00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:52,950
Once we get up there, we can hike,

537
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:54,090
you know, remote stuff doesn't matter.

538
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:54,730
We're in good shape.

539
00:16:54,910 --> 00:16:56,530
Let's do it now because if we wait,

540
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:58,530
maybe we can't, maybe I'll get sick, right?

541
00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:59,770
Maybe cancer will pop up.

542
00:16:59,870 --> 00:17:00,190
Who knows?

543
00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:03,910
So it's also recognizing, okay, what are the

544
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:05,109
things that you really want to do in

545
00:17:05,109 --> 00:17:05,690
your life?

546
00:17:06,329 --> 00:17:09,210
And, and are you, instead of just procrastinating,

547
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:11,470
are you kind of prioritizing and making sure

548
00:17:11,470 --> 00:17:13,130
the things that you really want to do

549
00:17:13,130 --> 00:17:16,230
are getting scheduled because you don't want to,

550
00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:18,030
you know, get to that point and then

551
00:17:18,030 --> 00:17:21,190
have regrets that you procrastinated on something that,

552
00:17:21,369 --> 00:17:22,650
you know, you're really interested in doing.

553
00:17:22,790 --> 00:17:24,589
So I, there's a lot of facets that

554
00:17:24,589 --> 00:17:25,690
you can look at this thing.

555
00:17:26,349 --> 00:17:29,910
Um, but it's a really important reality to

556
00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:31,110
get your head around and figure out how

557
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:32,150
you're going to address it.

558
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:35,430
You know, thinking about, uh, Mount Everest or

559
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:37,850
anything, the little big, big goals, right?

560
00:17:38,270 --> 00:17:40,630
I don't think people regret something if they

561
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:42,250
try it and fail.

562
00:17:42,450 --> 00:17:42,850
Correct.

563
00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:45,390
It's the regrets are, I wish I, you

564
00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:46,870
know, talking about Dr. G's books.

565
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:48,110
I mean, a lot of that's in there,

566
00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:50,610
but if you try something and you're not

567
00:17:50,610 --> 00:17:52,250
successful, you gave it your best effort.

568
00:17:52,550 --> 00:17:53,870
I don't think there's a regret there.

569
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:56,730
So don't be afraid of failure is, is

570
00:17:56,730 --> 00:17:57,490
important, I think.

571
00:17:57,630 --> 00:17:57,870
That's right.

572
00:17:58,010 --> 00:17:58,950
Look at Mike Drack.

573
00:17:59,030 --> 00:18:00,270
Mike Drack's a Canadian guy.

574
00:18:00,430 --> 00:18:00,930
I enjoy him.

575
00:18:01,010 --> 00:18:02,130
He's, he's written a couple of books.

576
00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:04,550
Um, Retirement, Heaven or Hell is one of

577
00:18:04,550 --> 00:18:06,790
them, but, um, he's 70 years old and

578
00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:07,610
he, he set a goal.

579
00:18:07,670 --> 00:18:08,970
He was going to do an Ironman for

580
00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:09,790
his 70th birthday.

581
00:18:09,790 --> 00:18:10,810
So he goes out and I'm going to

582
00:18:10,810 --> 00:18:11,370
do this Ironman.

583
00:18:11,410 --> 00:18:13,130
He failed, you know, he, he had a

584
00:18:13,130 --> 00:18:15,050
mechanic, mechanical problem on his bike of all

585
00:18:15,050 --> 00:18:15,310
things.

586
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:16,850
Um, but he said, you know what?

587
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:18,830
He said, now that I've had time to

588
00:18:18,830 --> 00:18:20,610
think about it, that wasn't the point.

589
00:18:20,690 --> 00:18:22,230
The point was it gave me six months

590
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:23,170
to train for something.

591
00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:24,470
I got in really good shape.

592
00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:26,550
I was involved in other athletes doing this

593
00:18:26,550 --> 00:18:29,050
and I got so many other benefits from

594
00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:32,090
striving towards this goal that I'm really glad

595
00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:33,970
I undertook the challenge.

596
00:18:34,110 --> 00:18:35,130
And that was his success.

597
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:37,490
It wasn't that I completed the Ironman.

598
00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:39,090
It was, Hey, it gave me a really

599
00:18:39,090 --> 00:18:40,990
good six month period of time here where

600
00:18:40,990 --> 00:18:42,170
I got myself in better shape.

601
00:18:42,250 --> 00:18:43,090
I feel good about it.

602
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:44,750
And he was really pleased that he did

603
00:18:44,750 --> 00:18:46,150
it, even though he never completed it.

604
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:48,350
So yeah, I'm just going to put a

605
00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:49,210
caveat to that.

606
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:52,650
When you're climbing Mount Everest, the exception you

607
00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:56,070
fail there, you fail, you die.

608
00:18:57,570 --> 00:18:58,310
All right.

609
00:18:58,350 --> 00:18:59,230
Extreme example.

610
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:59,830
Yes.

611
00:19:02,170 --> 00:19:04,250
Talk about social connection for it.

612
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:07,350
Um, and I've noticed in my, just my,

613
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:10,250
not my study, but in my personal neighbors,

614
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:12,770
relationships, people that I know, this is a

615
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:16,470
harder thing for men than women, but talk

616
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:18,430
about why it's so important and some, some

617
00:19:18,430 --> 00:19:20,250
strategies that you've found successful.

618
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:21,490
Yeah, there's no doubt.

619
00:19:21,550 --> 00:19:22,230
It's harder for men.

620
00:19:22,290 --> 00:19:23,930
I don't know why it's just the reality.

621
00:19:24,050 --> 00:19:25,710
Women just tend to be good or better

622
00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:27,610
at getting together and having lunch with friends

623
00:19:27,610 --> 00:19:28,170
and doing stuff.

624
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:29,850
I don't know what it is, but, um,

625
00:19:29,910 --> 00:19:32,010
again, this is one of those areas, like

626
00:19:32,010 --> 00:19:33,710
we said, besides a paycheck, right?

627
00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:34,710
It's going to be relationships.

628
00:19:35,030 --> 00:19:36,790
And you think those people are working our

629
00:19:36,790 --> 00:19:38,650
friends, but they're, you know, they're work friends.

630
00:19:38,690 --> 00:19:39,710
You're not going to keep in touch with

631
00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:40,510
them after you retire.

632
00:19:40,570 --> 00:19:42,530
You think you will, but realistically you probably

633
00:19:42,530 --> 00:19:42,950
won't.

634
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:45,490
And since we have in common, we don't

635
00:19:45,490 --> 00:19:46,370
have in common anymore.

636
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:46,790
Exactly.

637
00:19:47,010 --> 00:19:47,190
Yeah.

638
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:48,230
And even if you try to go back

639
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:49,470
in the office and have lunch with them,

640
00:19:49,570 --> 00:19:50,870
you know, a couple of times a year,

641
00:19:51,050 --> 00:19:52,450
they're onto different things.

642
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:54,150
You can't really relate to what they're talking

643
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:54,410
about.

644
00:19:54,490 --> 00:19:55,670
There's a new boss in town.

645
00:19:55,790 --> 00:19:57,190
You don't know who the guy is, right?

646
00:19:57,330 --> 00:19:58,250
It's not the same.

647
00:19:58,690 --> 00:20:00,570
So one of the things I encourage people

648
00:20:00,570 --> 00:20:02,190
to do is in your last year or

649
00:20:02,190 --> 00:20:05,410
two of retirement, start thinking about what relationships

650
00:20:05,410 --> 00:20:07,710
do I have that are going to be

651
00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:09,350
here after I'm gone from work.

652
00:20:10,050 --> 00:20:12,070
And typically there aren't too many, right?

653
00:20:12,170 --> 00:20:13,470
You've got your spouse if you're married.

654
00:20:13,890 --> 00:20:15,310
So foster that relationship.

655
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:15,830
That's huge.

656
00:20:15,910 --> 00:20:17,570
Make sure you're planning for retirement together.

657
00:20:17,730 --> 00:20:19,150
We could, I wrote a whole chapter in

658
00:20:19,150 --> 00:20:19,990
my book about that.

659
00:20:20,430 --> 00:20:21,390
Jeff's brought up that topic.

660
00:20:21,810 --> 00:20:23,570
Yeah, it's a big one.

661
00:20:23,790 --> 00:20:25,170
And so let's say that one's, that one's

662
00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:27,390
obvious, but it, I don't want to undermine

663
00:20:27,390 --> 00:20:27,590
it.

664
00:20:27,630 --> 00:20:28,670
It's not always easy though.

665
00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:29,630
No, it's not easy.

666
00:20:30,330 --> 00:20:31,250
So that's a huge one.

667
00:20:31,310 --> 00:20:32,470
We could do a whole podcast on that.

668
00:20:32,590 --> 00:20:34,210
Beyond that though, I would say, I'll give

669
00:20:34,210 --> 00:20:34,610
you an example.

670
00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:36,290
In my case, there was a little festival

671
00:20:36,290 --> 00:20:37,850
in our town here and they had a

672
00:20:37,850 --> 00:20:38,630
little author's booth.

673
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:40,750
And I was in the process of, you

674
00:20:40,750 --> 00:20:42,990
know, my blog was getting some traction and

675
00:20:42,990 --> 00:20:44,170
I hadn't written a book yet, but I

676
00:20:44,170 --> 00:20:46,070
was like, oh, there's local people that write.

677
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:47,830
I should go up to this author's booth.

678
00:20:47,910 --> 00:20:48,990
So I went up to this author's booth

679
00:20:48,990 --> 00:20:50,630
and there was a book laying on the

680
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:52,650
table about some personal finance thing.

681
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:54,450
And the guy's name was on there.

682
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:55,730
And I said, oh, is Ed around?

683
00:20:55,850 --> 00:20:57,390
And they're like, no, he's not working the

684
00:20:57,390 --> 00:20:59,330
booth today, but you know, here's his card.

685
00:20:59,850 --> 00:21:01,030
So I said, you know, I don't know

686
00:21:01,030 --> 00:21:02,110
this guy, but I gave him a call

687
00:21:02,110 --> 00:21:03,210
and said, Hey Ed, I was down at

688
00:21:03,210 --> 00:21:03,890
the author's booth.

689
00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:04,630
I saw your book.

690
00:21:05,010 --> 00:21:06,410
You know, I'm getting ready to retire.

691
00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:07,310
You want to go out and have lunch

692
00:21:07,310 --> 00:21:07,630
together?

693
00:21:08,010 --> 00:21:11,630
And, and that turned into every month for

694
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:14,270
years, unfortunately he's passed away, but we had

695
00:21:14,270 --> 00:21:16,410
lunch together, you know, once a month, maybe

696
00:21:16,410 --> 00:21:17,310
every other month.

697
00:21:17,490 --> 00:21:19,210
And, and he became a good friend of

698
00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:21,010
mine who was, we had a common interest,

699
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:21,310
right?

700
00:21:21,310 --> 00:21:22,890
We were writing about personal finance.

701
00:21:23,330 --> 00:21:26,010
And, and I, so I intentionally fostered that

702
00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:28,210
because of this exercise, Hey, I don't really

703
00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:30,390
have too many friends outside of the workplace.

704
00:21:31,010 --> 00:21:33,410
Where, you know, where can I start establishing

705
00:21:33,410 --> 00:21:35,770
some friendships outside of work that'll be there

706
00:21:35,770 --> 00:21:36,350
after I'm gone.

707
00:21:36,490 --> 00:21:37,850
So look at things like that.

708
00:21:37,910 --> 00:21:38,890
Just be open to it.

709
00:21:39,070 --> 00:21:41,170
And, and don't be afraid to call the

710
00:21:41,170 --> 00:21:42,530
other area back to the charity.

711
00:21:42,650 --> 00:21:43,970
I've got more friends now than I've ever

712
00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:44,690
had in my life.

713
00:21:45,130 --> 00:21:46,990
And, and most of them are coming from

714
00:21:46,990 --> 00:21:48,290
this freedom for Fido charity.

715
00:21:48,290 --> 00:21:49,590
We call it the Fido family.

716
00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:50,910
There's a core of volunteers.

717
00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:52,630
We'll get together and go to a micro

718
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:54,050
brew just spontaneously.

719
00:21:54,270 --> 00:21:55,650
Somebody will shoot out a group text, say,

720
00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:56,550
Hey, you want to go meet up at

721
00:21:56,550 --> 00:21:58,410
Grumpy's, you know, in, in a couple hours

722
00:21:58,410 --> 00:22:00,430
and 20 of us will show up.

723
00:22:00,630 --> 00:22:03,550
And so there's this natural group of friendships

724
00:22:03,550 --> 00:22:05,350
that have developed through this charity work.

725
00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:08,410
And, you know, they're, they're really good friends

726
00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:10,090
and we'll do stuff outside of the charity

727
00:22:10,090 --> 00:22:11,550
with some regularity.

728
00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:13,430
And then the last one I would think

729
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:14,830
of, if you're not involved in a church,

730
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:16,590
get involved in church, get in small, you

731
00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:17,750
know, small group Bible study.

732
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:19,910
You can, there are a lot of areas

733
00:22:19,910 --> 00:22:21,970
that you can develop good friendships, but it

734
00:22:21,970 --> 00:22:23,170
takes intentionality.

735
00:22:23,530 --> 00:22:26,230
And if you don't pursue it, they can,

736
00:22:26,690 --> 00:22:28,190
loneliness is not a way you want to

737
00:22:28,190 --> 00:22:28,930
spend your retirement.

738
00:22:28,930 --> 00:22:30,770
And a lot of people are in retirement.

739
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:31,690
That's true.

740
00:22:31,810 --> 00:22:33,710
I'll throw one more in there based on

741
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:36,930
my experience when we relocated to Florida pickleball.

742
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:37,610
Yeah, sure.

743
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:38,270
Absolutely.

744
00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:39,230
Yep.

745
00:22:39,610 --> 00:22:39,810
Yep.

746
00:22:40,410 --> 00:22:41,050
Let's stretch.

747
00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:45,830
Somebody must have pulled a muscle.

748
00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:46,870
There's a story there.

749
00:22:49,030 --> 00:22:51,310
There's always a risk of injury, right?

750
00:22:51,930 --> 00:22:54,030
Number one cause of injury in our neighborhood

751
00:22:54,030 --> 00:22:54,990
is pickleball injuries.

752
00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:56,510
I think that's true in the nation right

753
00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:57,690
now for anybody over 60.

754
00:22:57,810 --> 00:22:57,990
Yeah.

755
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:58,490
Yeah.

756
00:22:59,170 --> 00:23:02,070
You know, and you don't have to be

757
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:03,270
great at it to still have a lot

758
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:04,950
of fun and connection.

759
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:07,390
Another thing, like where I live, they have

760
00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:08,330
hiking clubs, right?

761
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:09,850
I live in a very outdoorsy area.

762
00:23:09,910 --> 00:23:11,990
So you know, look, look, look for opportunities

763
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:14,110
in your local area of clubs that do

764
00:23:14,110 --> 00:23:15,690
things that interest you and get involved in

765
00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:18,070
a few clubs, reading clubs, anything that interests

766
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:19,370
you, you know, there's clubs out there for

767
00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:19,650
it.

768
00:23:20,250 --> 00:23:21,450
I really love the idea.

769
00:23:21,550 --> 00:23:24,490
You know, you mentioned the charitable involvement in

770
00:23:24,490 --> 00:23:25,570
a variety of comments.

771
00:23:26,590 --> 00:23:28,930
I just really love the, the idea of

772
00:23:28,930 --> 00:23:31,330
that because it really is something when you

773
00:23:31,330 --> 00:23:33,970
give of yourself, when you go outside of

774
00:23:33,970 --> 00:23:36,990
yourself, you, you really do get so much

775
00:23:36,990 --> 00:23:37,510
from it.

776
00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:40,470
There's a sense of wellbeing that, you know,

777
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:43,470
you're doing something constructive, you're helping other people.

778
00:23:44,290 --> 00:23:47,590
And something about that really comes back to

779
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:49,710
you in, in a way that you, yes,

780
00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:53,250
you're, you're really helping others, but um, there's

781
00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:56,510
a, there's a certain, uh, fulfillment benefit that

782
00:23:56,510 --> 00:23:57,510
comes from that.

783
00:23:57,530 --> 00:23:58,570
No, no doubt.

784
00:23:58,650 --> 00:24:00,930
And you know, I think it's, it's people

785
00:24:00,930 --> 00:24:02,610
listening to this will say, oh yeah, but

786
00:24:02,610 --> 00:24:02,930
right.

787
00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:05,090
There's always a, but it's, it's hard to

788
00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:07,790
get the, I'd almost call it courage to

789
00:24:07,790 --> 00:24:09,770
go out and get engaged in something because

790
00:24:09,770 --> 00:24:12,090
it's just easier to just, you know, inertia,

791
00:24:12,210 --> 00:24:12,450
right?

792
00:24:12,730 --> 00:24:15,610
So it, so yes, it's, and if you

793
00:24:15,610 --> 00:24:18,950
read people that have had successful retirements, look

794
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:20,630
at the percentage of them that are involved

795
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:21,950
in one way or another in charity.

796
00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:25,310
It's overwhelmingly the majority, right?

797
00:24:25,390 --> 00:24:28,570
So I don't care what excuses you want

798
00:24:28,570 --> 00:24:29,810
to make, just go out there and try

799
00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:31,290
one or two or three, you know, and,

800
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:32,450
oh, it didn't really work out.

801
00:24:32,510 --> 00:24:32,690
Fine.

802
00:24:32,770 --> 00:24:33,490
Go to another one.

803
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:38,680
And what you'll find is you'll, you'll, you'll

804
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,660
get the relationships.

805
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,040
You'll get the sense of purpose.

806
00:24:41,140 --> 00:24:42,680
You'll add structure to your day.

807
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,580
You know, you'll, it, it adds so many

808
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:47,660
elements that you miss when you leave the

809
00:24:47,660 --> 00:24:48,020
workplace.

810
00:24:48,460 --> 00:24:50,040
I think that's why it's so fulfilling.

811
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,180
And, and you'd have that feel good thing

812
00:24:52,180 --> 00:24:53,980
from, you know, giving back to other people.

813
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,760
And it's much more, I would say you

814
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,740
can write a check, right?

815
00:24:57,740 --> 00:24:59,880
That's easy, but you don't get the same

816
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,020
level of fulfillment writing a check as you

817
00:25:02,020 --> 00:25:05,040
do getting involved personally and contributing, you know,

818
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:06,080
muscle to the effort.

819
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:06,960
Yeah.

820
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:07,520
Yeah.

821
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:09,540
And, but, and so it is a commitment

822
00:25:09,540 --> 00:25:12,480
of time and which is a precious commodity,

823
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,380
right?

824
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,940
When we get to a certain stage of

825
00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:19,080
life, you know, but, um, there's, there's the

826
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,000
social connection.

827
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,820
There's the, uh, sense of fulfillment.

828
00:25:22,820 --> 00:25:24,380
There's a lot of the good that can

829
00:25:24,380 --> 00:25:26,720
come out of that, um, over and above,

830
00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:30,560
um, you know, the, maybe the money you

831
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,620
might contribute as well or something like that.

832
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:37,820
Um, you know, let's just referencing this article,

833
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:40,240
you know, a portion of it did have

834
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,160
to do with the money side of things.

835
00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:45,500
I think Jeff and I like having a

836
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,540
guest like you on because we talk about

837
00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:50,220
the money stuff regularly, but we don't always

838
00:25:50,220 --> 00:25:51,600
have the chance to talk about some of

839
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,920
these things that contribute to one's fulfillment as

840
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:55,660
much as we'd like.

841
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,560
So, um, we certainly can talk more about

842
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,420
that, but I do think it's important to

843
00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:02,640
just mention this or these other contents.

844
00:26:02,780 --> 00:26:04,440
And one of them was, you talked about

845
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:05,960
the idea that you have to plan for

846
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,540
the unexpected, uh, and maybe you could mention

847
00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:10,100
some of that.

848
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:10,860
Yeah.

849
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:11,080
Yeah.

850
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,700
The article that you talked about for, for

851
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:14,820
the readers, it was three questions that determine

852
00:26:14,820 --> 00:26:16,860
99% of your retirement success.

853
00:26:17,220 --> 00:26:19,260
So there were three questions that I encouraged

854
00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:20,400
my readers to answer.

855
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,040
And the first one was, do you have

856
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,320
a reliable cashflow plan, which basically, if you

857
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,340
projected your expenses, if you looked at how

858
00:26:26,340 --> 00:26:28,320
much income you can get from your social

859
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,960
security pension, if you're fortunate, uh, you know,

860
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,880
safe withdrawal rate from your investments, et cetera.

861
00:26:33,180 --> 00:26:37,220
But beyond just doing that exercise, which surprisingly

862
00:26:37,220 --> 00:26:38,880
few people actually go through it.

863
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:39,640
It's shocking.

864
00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:41,800
But even, even if you've gone through that

865
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,680
exercise, the second question is, have you made

866
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,300
a plan for unexpected expenses?

867
00:26:46,940 --> 00:26:48,180
And you will have unexpected.

868
00:26:48,180 --> 00:26:50,940
I call them the unexpected, expected expenses, right?

869
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:51,680
They're expected.

870
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:52,700
You know, you're going to have to replace

871
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:53,080
your roof.

872
00:26:53,140 --> 00:26:54,020
You know, you're going to have to replace

873
00:26:54,020 --> 00:26:54,440
your car.

874
00:26:54,860 --> 00:26:55,760
A buddy of mine just got in a

875
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:56,560
car accident, right?

876
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:57,120
Unexpected.

877
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,420
Um, you're going to have those things.

878
00:26:59,460 --> 00:27:00,780
So how do you build that into your

879
00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:01,140
plan?

880
00:27:01,220 --> 00:27:03,420
And, and what I referenced, I read an

881
00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:05,020
article, I read a book actually by the

882
00:27:05,020 --> 00:27:06,480
wall street journal as I was planning for

883
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:07,000
my retirement.

884
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,200
And I really liked the approach that they

885
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:09,480
went.

886
00:27:09,860 --> 00:27:11,980
They basically amortize that you think of all

887
00:27:11,980 --> 00:27:14,460
the major expenses, you know, mainly around maintenance

888
00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:16,700
for a house, but you know, replacing a

889
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:19,200
car and you, and you basically say, okay,

890
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:20,260
if I'm going to have a car, let's

891
00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:20,940
just do an easy one.

892
00:27:20,980 --> 00:27:22,520
Let's say a car is I'll make the

893
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:22,920
math easy.

894
00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:24,080
It's a little exaggerated.

895
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:25,180
Let's say a car is a hundred thousand

896
00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:26,900
dollars and it's going to last 10 years.

897
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,660
That's $10,000 a year.

898
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:33,340
So let's say it's, you add that to

899
00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:35,840
the spreadsheet and you basically go through that.

900
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:36,600
How much is a roof?

901
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,360
$20,000.

902
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:38,280
How long does it last?

903
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:38,800
20 years.

904
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:39,020
Okay.

905
00:27:39,020 --> 00:27:40,060
That's a thousand dollars a year.

906
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,120
That's a hundred bucks a month.

907
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,880
And you add all of those up.

908
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:44,700
And what you end up with is a,

909
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:45,900
is a, is a number.

910
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:47,960
And mine is, is a, is a thousand

911
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,120
dollars a month, $12,000 a year, roughly,

912
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,060
um, from that exercise.

913
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:54,640
So what I do is I basically, as

914
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,100
I'm calculating my safe withdrawal rate, every year

915
00:27:57,100 --> 00:27:58,020
at the end of the year, I look

916
00:27:58,020 --> 00:27:59,180
at my updated net worth.

917
00:27:59,340 --> 00:28:00,900
I look at a three and a half,

918
00:28:00,980 --> 00:28:02,600
4% safe withdrawal rate and say, okay,

919
00:28:02,620 --> 00:28:03,600
I can spend that much.

920
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,700
The first 12,000 of that amount I

921
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:08,180
pull out and I put in a segregated

922
00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:09,600
account for emergencies.

923
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:11,860
And then I spend the rest of my

924
00:28:11,860 --> 00:28:12,720
safe withdrawal rate.

925
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,720
So I've got, I've got it already baked

926
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,260
into the safe withdrawal rate, so I won't

927
00:28:16,260 --> 00:28:17,080
overspend.

928
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,560
And it's got some kind of logic for

929
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,360
how it's created.

930
00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:22,280
And now you've got a pool of money

931
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,660
and I just have it in a capital

932
00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:25,280
one 360 money market account.

933
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:27,240
You can segregate those accounts, which is nice.

934
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:28,960
So I've got a retirement emergency account.

935
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,540
And, and as if something comes up, oh,

936
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:32,600
I've got to replace the roof.

937
00:28:32,660 --> 00:28:33,060
No problem.

938
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:33,960
You go in there and you pull the

939
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,300
cash out of that, you know, you're within

940
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:36,220
your safe spending limit.

941
00:28:36,340 --> 00:28:37,860
That's how I, that's how I manage it.

942
00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:39,140
I love it.

943
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:39,800
That's great.

944
00:28:40,020 --> 00:28:40,860
That's really good.

945
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,680
Um, and just, uh, you know, very methodical,

946
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,160
you know, and I think you're absolutely right.

947
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:50,320
I mean, too often people will try to

948
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,440
pretend that they've thought of everything when they,

949
00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:54,240
you know, they really know that there's all

950
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,060
these things that are out there that will

951
00:28:56,060 --> 00:28:57,180
come along, you know?

952
00:28:57,660 --> 00:28:59,400
And so this is a way to do

953
00:28:59,400 --> 00:28:59,520
it.

954
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:00,040
I like that.

955
00:29:00,220 --> 00:29:01,640
We, uh, we try to think about some

956
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,480
of these issues when we do our financial

957
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,620
planning and, uh, you know, work it into

958
00:29:06,620 --> 00:29:08,800
the, uh, you know, some home improvement costs,

959
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,880
some car replacements, things like that.

960
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,160
Um, but I like the way you've got

961
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,760
that sort of methodically being set aside into

962
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:22,100
that delayed spending on expected unexpected account.

963
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:22,680
Yeah.

964
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:22,940
Yeah.

965
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,600
And you know, some people could argue, well,

966
00:29:24,620 --> 00:29:26,360
doesn't that mean you're carrying too much cash,

967
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,220
you know, opportunity costs, right?

968
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,560
Well, yeah, but that's not the reason that,

969
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,360
that, that money is not there to make

970
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:32,660
money.

971
00:29:32,660 --> 00:29:34,760
That money is to avoid me spending, you

972
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,160
know, above and beyond my safe level.

973
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,300
I'm not as worried about making a return

974
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:41,340
on that money.

975
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,100
So there's always a balance.

976
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:46,400
You mentioned long-term care in the article.

977
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,180
And I think that's one of the areas

978
00:29:48,180 --> 00:29:51,660
is most difficult for people to plan for.

979
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:52,120
Yeah.

980
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,980
You know, we, we know there's a risk.

981
00:29:55,220 --> 00:29:57,000
We can point out the extent of the

982
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:57,340
risk.

983
00:29:57,340 --> 00:30:00,580
And in some instances, um, well, the math

984
00:30:00,580 --> 00:30:03,660
really should be able to sustain it even

985
00:30:03,660 --> 00:30:05,400
with those big costs.

986
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,780
And then other instances, it could be devastating,

987
00:30:07,780 --> 00:30:13,120
but people really are reluctant to say, buy

988
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,660
insurance or it's not going to happen to

989
00:30:15,660 --> 00:30:15,880
me.

990
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:16,520
No.

991
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:17,980
Well, and I, and I wrote an article

992
00:30:17,980 --> 00:30:20,020
about long-term care and my decision to

993
00:30:20,020 --> 00:30:20,620
self-insure.

994
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:23,640
Um, and basically what I did is I

995
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,680
looked at the cost of buying insurance, option

996
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,380
A, option B is I could invest that

997
00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:31,460
premium every, every month.

998
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:33,800
And what would that look like over time?

999
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,640
And I just did side-by-side spreadsheets

1000
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:36,300
and ran it out.

1001
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,760
And there's a natural break-even point at,

1002
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,480
I don't know, it was in my late

1003
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,520
seventies, early eighties.

1004
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:42,080
I wrote an article.

1005
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,220
I can't remember the name, but let's say

1006
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:44,020
it was 80 years old.

1007
00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:44,580
Okay.

1008
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,460
That's kind of the way I went about

1009
00:30:50,460 --> 00:30:50,600
it.

1010
00:30:50,660 --> 00:30:53,120
But then I heard this from Christine Benz

1011
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,080
at Morningstar, which I thought was really good.

1012
00:30:55,580 --> 00:30:58,000
One of the reasons people underspend in retirement,

1013
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,060
big problem, by the way, most people underspend

1014
00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:01,300
what they're able to spend.

1015
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:03,380
Bill Bergen's new book says, Hey, 4.7

1016
00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:04,800
% is the new safe withdrawal rate.

1017
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:05,020
Right?

1018
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:07,520
So most people underspend and they have much,

1019
00:31:07,620 --> 00:31:10,360
much more, if they're been responsible, they listened

1020
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:10,880
to your show.

1021
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,560
I'm talking responsible people, right?

1022
00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:14,940
Most people significantly underspend.

1023
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,740
And one of the reasons they use, well,

1024
00:31:16,780 --> 00:31:18,100
I might have a long-term care event.

1025
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:19,100
Fair enough.

1026
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,920
But you can't build hedge on top of

1027
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,280
hedge on top of hedge on top of

1028
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:23,460
hedge.

1029
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,520
You die with $20 million and you know,

1030
00:31:25,580 --> 00:31:26,360
your kids get it all.

1031
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:27,680
You could have, you could have lived a

1032
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:28,320
lot more life.

1033
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,220
So what Christine Benz recommends, which I think

1034
00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:33,760
is really good when you're calculating your safe

1035
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,160
withdrawal rate at the end of the year,

1036
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:35,660
right?

1037
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,780
Let's say you've got a million dollars and

1038
00:31:37,780 --> 00:31:40,200
you're saying, yeah, but I don't, so you

1039
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,820
could spend $40,000, 4% safe withdrawal

1040
00:31:42,820 --> 00:31:43,060
rate.

1041
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:44,060
Yeah.

1042
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,360
But I don't, I don't, I don't want

1043
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:46,660
to spend that much because I want to

1044
00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:47,900
save some of her long-term care.

1045
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:48,340
Fine.

1046
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,840
What's long-term care costs on average, let's

1047
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,480
say it's $70,000 a year.

1048
00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:53,620
You're going to need it for three years.

1049
00:31:53,660 --> 00:31:54,660
Let's call it $200,000.

1050
00:31:55,340 --> 00:31:57,880
So you subtract the $200,000 from your

1051
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,540
net worth.

1052
00:31:58,940 --> 00:32:01,160
And instead of calculating it off the million,

1053
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,060
you calculate it off the 800,000.

1054
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,220
And then you say, okay, I've already built

1055
00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:07,340
in my safety buffer right there.

1056
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,560
I'm going to set that money aside kind

1057
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:10,220
of mentally.

1058
00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:13,360
And I'm only going to use my net

1059
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,000
worth minus what I think long-term care

1060
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:16,660
is going to cost.

1061
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:18,400
And I'm going to use my safe withdrawal

1062
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,680
rate calculation from that.

1063
00:32:20,060 --> 00:32:21,160
That that's, that to me is a pretty

1064
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:21,740
good approach.

1065
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,080
So that's kind of what I've been thinking

1066
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:23,360
about.

1067
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:24,760
That's kind of how I address it now.

1068
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:27,540
That sounds kind of similar to stuff you've

1069
00:32:27,540 --> 00:32:28,260
talked about Jeff.

1070
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,740
Well, I've talked about this before.

1071
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,200
I had my wife and I each have

1072
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:32,700
a Roth.

1073
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,540
We've had it for a while and we

1074
00:32:34,540 --> 00:32:39,820
have just segregated, bucketed the Roths, not in

1075
00:32:39,820 --> 00:32:41,280
our withdrawal plan for the future.

1076
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:43,820
And so those funds will grow and they're

1077
00:32:43,820 --> 00:32:45,820
already adequate to handle a long-term care

1078
00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:48,200
event, but they'll even grow more and there'll

1079
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,840
be our super old age emergency funding case.

1080
00:32:52,020 --> 00:32:53,160
Everything else goes wrong.

1081
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:54,940
We still have that.

1082
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,980
I think that the most important point here

1083
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:59,040
is have a plan, have a strategy.

1084
00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:01,440
It can be a lot of different things.

1085
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,380
There's more than one way to approach having

1086
00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:07,940
different cash flows and different composition of the

1087
00:33:07,940 --> 00:33:09,160
portfolio and all that.

1088
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:11,220
That's how you want to think about it,

1089
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:12,120
but it's a good point.

1090
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:13,040
Just have a plan.

1091
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:13,620
Have a plan.

1092
00:33:13,820 --> 00:33:16,520
And to Fritz's point, don't underlive the life

1093
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,600
that you can live because you don't have

1094
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:19,000
a plan.

1095
00:33:19,180 --> 00:33:21,080
That's ridiculous actually.

1096
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,060
Have a plan and it'll be in your

1097
00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:24,940
plan, stay in your plan, meet your advisor

1098
00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:27,500
once a year, go over your plan and

1099
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:30,280
you'll be ready for whatever that is.

1100
00:33:30,820 --> 00:33:31,960
Fritz, I'm really curious.

1101
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,000
We're going to have to have you back

1102
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:33,880
because you're great.

1103
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:34,900
This was a lot of fun.

1104
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,700
I hear people talking about guardrails and I'm

1105
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:41,240
always reluctant to encourage people to think about

1106
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,720
guardrails because it just doesn't match behavioral characteristics

1107
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:46,640
for most people.

1108
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,320
What's your take on that approach?

1109
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,540
Clearly, if you look at all the analysis

1110
00:33:53,540 --> 00:33:57,180
that's been done, being flexible in your spending.

1111
00:33:57,340 --> 00:34:00,060
The way I would define guardrails is this.

1112
00:34:00,660 --> 00:34:02,360
You've got a range of spending.

1113
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:04,520
Let's say it's anywhere from 3% to

1114
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,480
5% just to pick a number.

1115
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,760
You can spend 3% to 5%

1116
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:09,920
of your net worth every year.

1117
00:34:10,020 --> 00:34:10,460
That's fine.

1118
00:34:11,020 --> 00:34:12,639
What if your portfolio tanks?

1119
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,300
Well, by definition, the guardrails say, because your

1120
00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:18,020
portfolio is down, you're going to adjust your

1121
00:34:18,020 --> 00:34:18,639
spending down.

1122
00:34:19,739 --> 00:34:22,020
That's natural human behavior anyway.

1123
00:34:22,139 --> 00:34:23,500
You're probably not going to take that vacation.

1124
00:34:23,659 --> 00:34:25,440
You're not going to do that home improvement

1125
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,360
project you were thinking about because the market's

1126
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,260
tanked and you're nervous.

1127
00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:30,659
That's going to happen anyway.

1128
00:34:32,860 --> 00:34:34,540
That's one thing I think about it.

1129
00:34:34,540 --> 00:34:35,360
Then I'll tell you what I do.

1130
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,620
The second thing is make sure when you're

1131
00:34:38,620 --> 00:34:41,739
building up your expected expenses that you build

1132
00:34:41,739 --> 00:34:43,880
some, you're not just covering your necessities.

1133
00:34:44,420 --> 00:34:45,739
You can do it in a variety of

1134
00:34:45,739 --> 00:34:48,380
ways, but build some discretionary buffer into your

1135
00:34:48,380 --> 00:34:50,260
spending so that if you do have to

1136
00:34:50,260 --> 00:34:51,739
take down some spending, no problem.

1137
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,380
I'll just whack out that category for a

1138
00:34:53,380 --> 00:34:53,600
year.

1139
00:34:53,780 --> 00:34:54,239
We'll be fine.

1140
00:34:54,420 --> 00:34:54,800
It's a natural.

1141
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:55,719
It works.

1142
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,680
All the research says, absolutely, guardrails do maximize

1143
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,860
your money lasting longer than you do.

1144
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:06,740
It's wise to have some kind of guardrail

1145
00:35:06,740 --> 00:35:07,160
approach.

1146
00:35:07,260 --> 00:35:08,720
What I do is every year I do

1147
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:09,380
my net worth.

1148
00:35:10,300 --> 00:35:13,600
I do a safe withdrawal rate calculation from

1149
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,780
three, three and a half, four, four and

1150
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:16,260
a half percent.

1151
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,020
I get different numbers that I can withdraw.

1152
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,020
I typically try to stay under four percent.

1153
00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:25,400
I'm conservative, but I know that if the

1154
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,540
market tanks, I'm not uncomfortable going to four

1155
00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:29,200
and a half percent.

1156
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,340
The market goes down.

1157
00:35:31,660 --> 00:35:32,900
I can maybe bump it up to four

1158
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:34,400
and a half percent of that lower net

1159
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:34,800
worth.

1160
00:35:35,380 --> 00:35:36,780
Maybe I don't have to take the entire

1161
00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:38,220
haircut on my spending, but I'm going to

1162
00:35:38,220 --> 00:35:39,500
take a little bit most likely.

1163
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:41,540
Realistically, that's probably what I'm going to do

1164
00:35:41,540 --> 00:35:41,840
anyway.

1165
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,680
It's a methodology that takes into account the

1166
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,560
reality that your portfolio is moving.

1167
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,220
Now, fortunately, I retired in 2018.

1168
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:53,100
We've had multiple years of 20 plus percent.

1169
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,760
I'm actually having the other problem.

1170
00:35:54,860 --> 00:35:56,500
I'm like, man, I got to keep spending

1171
00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:56,740
more.

1172
00:35:56,820 --> 00:35:59,180
No, you really don't, but I'm trying to

1173
00:35:59,180 --> 00:36:01,760
spend more because I can spend more right

1174
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:01,960
now.

1175
00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:03,680
We're doing an expansion on the house.

1176
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:04,560
We're doing some stuff.

1177
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,540
We're taking advantage of strong markets, not going

1178
00:36:08,540 --> 00:36:11,420
over the four percent, but recognizing that, hey,

1179
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:12,900
this is an opportunity.

1180
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:14,480
Listen to the math.

1181
00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:18,260
That's a guardrail in the positive.

1182
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,280
You can adjust it up and down.

1183
00:36:20,540 --> 00:36:22,880
I think it comes down to how disciplined

1184
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,960
one is in the way they're approaching the

1185
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:25,460
whole thing.

1186
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:25,900
Exactly.

1187
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:27,860
I had an article that just came out

1188
00:36:27,860 --> 00:36:28,720
on my blog this morning.

1189
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:29,780
It was written by Dana.

1190
00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:30,580
She writes with me.

1191
00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:33,700
It was about Bill Dungen's new book, The

1192
00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:34,440
Safe Withdrawal Rate.

1193
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,620
He's revised it up to 4.7 percent.

1194
00:36:37,020 --> 00:36:39,060
What's more important than the safe withdrawal rate?

1195
00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:44,620
The conclusion is what matters more than what

1196
00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:47,180
your safe withdrawal rate number is, is do

1197
00:36:47,180 --> 00:36:49,380
you have an annual process to monitor it

1198
00:36:49,380 --> 00:36:50,320
and keep you on track?

1199
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,320
That's what it really comes down to, which

1200
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,020
is what we're talking about.

1201
00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:53,720
Back to the plan.

1202
00:36:54,540 --> 00:36:54,940
Excellent.

1203
00:36:55,740 --> 00:36:55,840
Excellent.

1204
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:57,620
Hey, Fritz, thanks so much for making the

1205
00:36:57,620 --> 00:36:58,460
time to be with us.

1206
00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:01,340
You've been a great deal of insight.

1207
00:37:01,540 --> 00:37:03,560
It's fun to have this kind of conversation

1208
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:03,940
with you.

1209
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,880
What I love about it is we're talking

1210
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,260
not just math, and it's certainly part of

1211
00:37:09,260 --> 00:37:12,400
the importance of a good financial plan, retirement

1212
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,880
plan, is having the arithmetic behind it, but

1213
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,500
it's also the intangibles, the fulfillment part of

1214
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:24,700
it, and making sure that you have thought

1215
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:27,120
about some of these characteristics that you don't

1216
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,020
always put on a spreadsheet.

1217
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,900
It's really important to have retirement success.

1218
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,460
Check it out to theretirementmanifesto.com.

1219
00:37:35,940 --> 00:37:37,360
Fritz, thanks for being here.

1220
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:38,380
Thanks for having me, Chris.

1221
00:37:38,420 --> 00:37:39,540
Jeff, nice talking to you guys.

1222
00:37:39,580 --> 00:37:40,620
I appreciate the opportunity.

1223
00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:41,980
I'll surely have you back.

1224
00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:42,540
All right.

1225
00:37:42,580 --> 00:37:43,120
Thanks so much.

1226
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,360
Until next time, everybody, keep striving for something

1227
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:46,700
more.

1228
00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:49,660
Thank you for listening to Something More with

1229
00:37:49,660 --> 00:37:50,340
Chris Boyd.

1230
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,820
Call us for help, whether it's for financial

1231
00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:56,760
planning or portfolio management, insurance concerns, or those

1232
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,800
quality of life issues that make the money

1233
00:37:58,800 --> 00:37:59,880
matters matter.

1234
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,560
Whatever's on your mind, visit us at somethingmorewithchrisboyd

1235
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,720
.com, or call us toll-free at 866

1236
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:10,400
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1237
00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:14,280
Or send us your questions to amr-info

1238
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,220
at wealthenhancement.com.

1239
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,320
You're listening to Something More with Chris Boyd

1240
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:19,180
Financial Talk Show.

1241
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,780
Wealth Enhancement Advisory Services and Jay Christopher Boyd

1242
00:38:21,780 --> 00:38:24,100
provide investment advice on an individual basis to

1243
00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:24,660
clients only.

1244
00:38:24,820 --> 00:38:26,800
Proper advice depends on a complete analysis of

1245
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:27,980
all facts and circumstances.

1246
00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:30,080
The information given on this program is general

1247
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,100
financial comments and cannot be relied upon as

1248
00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:33,720
pertaining to your specific situation.

1249
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,860
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1250
00:38:35,860 --> 00:38:37,880
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1251
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,000
ensure freedom from loss.

1252
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,340
Listeners should consult their own financial advisors or

1253
00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:43,460
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1254
00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:44,200
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